Easy one.

[l.wenman]

:ohyes: Hi guys,
Cab some one remind me when creating a new website what size should it be done at so as it appears best ofr most monitors ans where do I do this in Frontpage. I did this about 3 years ago and have forgotten ?
Regads
L :ohyes: eanne

[frontpageforms]

My preference is to use tables set to 100%. I tend to center content into a single table. You could also nest tables as long as you keep an eye on the overall width.

You could also limit total horizontal width to @776 pixels. I think the right scroll is 24pixels, so 776 should be the proper width. Either should prevent a horizontal scroll for folks using 800x600 resolution.

[l.wenman]

TA.
How do I do this ?

[MandyJay]

I find it depends on the content, some lends great to 100% others the content area is so stretched it looks empty and you are left with side columns stretching vertically way past the content.

800 resolution - I find 760 is about maximum width I can go to and that leaves 20px for the scrollbar, I have not to date found that a problem in 800 resolution using either IE or Firefox.

MJ

[Gideon147]

The numbers I got from WebMonkey a while back are the ones I have used without much trouble:

Resolution/Width With Scroll/Width Without Scroll/Height
640x480/584/599/290
800x600/744/759/410
1024x768/968/983/578

Of course this doesn't necessary accommodate the beta 36" plasma screens but for most uses these seem adequate. I keep this table pinned to the wall next to my computer because I can never find it when I need it!

Shane

[MandyJay]

I am not sure how the two different measurements come into play for "with scroll and without scroll" if the page does not scroll vertically you still have the "empty space" where the scroll bar would have been, so the width of the page remains the same.

What I usually do is change the screen resolution of my monitor to double check when I first start on a clients website, with IE7 and Firefox7 760 is comfortable with or without vertical scrollbar. Remember browsers have a different default margin setting which your page will not cover. So to get the widest coverage, you set the styles to tell the page to have zero margins, that gives you certainly around 10 pixels more on your width. Maybe more I cant remember off hand. I have even managed to get 765 to display in 800 resolution with no problem, well sort of 1 pixel page margin!!

To test your pages go here (http://www.echoecho.com/toolresizer.htm) - you cant test for the wider resolutions, but you can backward check.

As long as you give the page background a nice complmentary background color or non invasive image, then the larger resolutions the pages still view very well.

There was also a very good article I read once, explaining that even if you design for 100%, you should actually design for a lesser percentage instead, as to reaad from left edge of monitor screen ... scan eyes across in straight line to right edge monitor screen and back again etc etc, is not comfortable on the eyes, also with some people it does mean turning the head slightly. The comfortable reading area on a screen is approx the center 600 pixels. Their recomendations were to have the actual content area of a webpage to be no more than 600 pixels regardless of resolution. I have to say (I view at 1024) when I come across pages set for 100% or the content stretches the majority of the way across the screen, I do find it uncomfortable reading comapred to a smaller content area ..... I found the article very very enlightening .... and before you ask, no I dont know where it was, I had it bookmarked, but heck 5 years of bookmarks and my favorites folder never stops scrolling!!

MJ

[Gideon147]

Manipulating the margins can give you some much needed extra space. But for browser defaults that you can use to work around, even if you want to manipulate the margins for best results, WebMonkey has listed the different browsers, resolutions, and machine defaults regarding width, height, with and without scrollbars

Here's the article, Page 2:

http://www.webmonkey.com/webmonkey/99/41/index3a_page2.html?tw=design

Shane

[MandyJay]

I have to admit I tend to go by personal experience. 780 which they recomend for windows only I have found for many people they have to scroll, but at 760 (which they recommend for all viewing - well 759) is perfect. So something is not right there with their 780. I know on my other puter which I have set for 800, I have to scroll at 780 but not at 760 . I dont know how old that article is but they neglect to take into account zero margins for Netscape ... they quote overriding the margins, but give the html as

"marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" topmargin="0" leftmargin="0"

- that only covers IE, to cover other browsers, you have to put

topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"

Unless I missed seeing that somewhere in the article. If you dont, then certainly Netscape displays the margins which would put their measurments out then.

The article is a very good guide but from my working experience I dont find all their numbers work. Sorry but from client feedback we stick with 760 (okay 759!!) to make sure 800 can view. They say that for Windows only you can use 776/780 .... I don't agree unfortunately and neither do some of my clients who have had scrolling at over 765 ....... as I have had at 770 when viewing at 800 resolution.

Interesting article though.

MJ

[frontpageforms]

I remember vaguely a post regarding this and they said that the right scroll is either 24 or 26 pixels. Weird that there would be different width opinions. May have something to do with scroll width for different browsers.

MJ, you mentioned the extra blank space which is created. I like the look of open space as long as it isn't big enough to drive a car through. I think nested tables help prevent some of the larger spaces. Not very good with nesting tables myself.

What I hate are frames and designs where they seem to adhere to 800x600 but it is all on the left side of the screen. Don't get that at all. Plus some of them are corporate sites. I think that is really funky looking.

[Gideon147]

The different widths for the scrolls are for pages that run long or wide by design. If you don't want the horizontal scroll bar at different resolutions you can certainly change your design width to accommodate and the same goes for your design height.

I have had a couple of glitches with their numbers but I don't have enough expierience to draw lasting statistical conclusions. I'll take your suggestion and modify my personal table though. I love getting better advice.

I agree that one of the most frustrating things is articles that don't take into account other very popular browsers. Despite what Microsoft would like, there are a great many people that enjoy using..*gasp* other browsers that happen to gravitate within the same galaxy as the w3c standard.

Sorry, soapbox moment :yoohoo: